tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post5106421673959800965..comments2023-07-04T10:07:07.739-04:00Comments on Black Sapience...My .02: Why Being a Black Comes First: White Woman Clutches Purse at Sight of 6 Black Gay MenBLKSeaGoathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00273396811423958316noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-83201066333849995222008-06-22T22:21:00.000-04:002008-06-22T22:21:00.000-04:00ps: Are you planning to be at Atlanta's Black Prid...ps: Are you planning to be at Atlanta's Black Pride during the fall?Mari-Djatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00800114855267631264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-85043158611910704282008-06-22T22:17:00.000-04:002008-06-22T22:17:00.000-04:00Ignorance needs to be brought to the light --and t...Ignorance needs to be brought to the light --and to me, the more humiliating, the better. Stupid people are stupid because others allow their stupidity. Thanks for verbally slapping the taste out that chick's mouth BLKSEAGOAT.Mari-Djatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00800114855267631264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-87297780551805479352008-06-04T11:03:00.000-04:002008-06-04T11:03:00.000-04:00I'm late into the discussion but I commend you blk...I'm late into the discussion but I commend you blkseagoat on your courage. Many of our people encounter this type of behavior daily and say nothing. I wish more of our men had your courage, character, and forthrightness.tasha212https://www.blogger.com/profile/05191746801740115475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-59834137288021798592008-06-04T10:33:00.000-04:002008-06-04T10:33:00.000-04:00Katie,You're making perfect sense and I like the w...Katie,<BR/><BR/>You're making perfect sense and I like the way you emphasized EVERYONE'S right to act in a way they perceived as appropriate. <BR/><BR/>I think the only thing I take issue with (and it's only within the context of what happened that night) was that there was no imminent fear or perceived threat. If there was then why not react the SAME way to different men regardless of the circumstances?<BR/><BR/>Why leave your purse open on a table in a public place anyway? If personal security and safety were issues of priority why act in such dramatic fashion to demonstrate (and distinguish) an irrational fear of black men...black gay men at that?BLKSeaGoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273396811423958316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-54435276187538681472008-06-04T10:26:00.000-04:002008-06-04T10:26:00.000-04:00Katie,Thanks for the support. In Naima's defense t...Katie,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the support. In Naima's defense though, she's right on some accounts. <BR/><BR/>On the podcasts, particularly those episodes where I'm speaking with and to people about their foolishness, I have a tendency to spit venom.<BR/><BR/>I can do it with or without profanity, but this was not one of those times. Had I WANTED to make her cry, I could have. Her irrational reaction to an honest critque about her behavior was puzzling.<BR/><BR/>This is great dialogue though. <BR/><BR/>I've only had to reject 3 comments riddled with crap that wasn't post worthy.BLKSeaGoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273396811423958316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-13168076112750835792008-06-04T10:19:00.000-04:002008-06-04T10:19:00.000-04:00"How many black women were subjected to this ill t...<I>"How many black women were subjected to this ill treatment and held their tears back, only to release the floodgates when they got safely to their cars?"</I><BR/><BR/>This gets at part of what I was thinking. I know it sounds like yet <I>another</I> tangential comparison, but what <I>I</I> was thinking of was what I leared in IMPACT self-defense classes. They taught us that when we speak to a man who is crossing our boundaries, we have the <B><I>right</I></B> to say whatever we think of and come away unmolested. Our teachers mentioned that if we thought it was <I>important</I> in our lives to protect ourselves with as little harm to others as possible, of course we could always take their suggestions about how to verbally defend ourselves <I>without</I> hurting the man's feelings. (One example is avoid profanity. Also avoid random angry insults. Another example is repeat the same directive over and over--that way, you won't, as you try to come up with new sentences, stumble upon something that will hurt his feelings.) But morally, no person has the <I>right</I> to hurt us physically because we hurt their feelings. And therefore, because they don't have the right to do that (although they do have the right to walk away yelling obscenities at us, venting over their hurt feelings!), we had the right to defend ourselves against a physical attack, no matter what we said before they physically attacked us.<BR/><BR/>So anyway...I don't quite know how to verbalize how all this ties in...or how it ties into Shecodes's example of black women hiding tears until out of sight (instead of letting them flow as the emotions happen)...but somehow they do all seem like similar sides of what people do and don't have the "right" to do.<BR/><BR/>So...yeah...I dunno...somehow what you did seemed to me like...verbal actions that you had the <I>right</I> to do after your boundaries were crossed by that woman.<BR/><BR/>(And then...her choosing to let her own emotions flow out in tears is her right. Heck, it's even a more <I>socially permitted</I> right than it is for men or for black women, I've learned. But crying on account of the hurt feelings is everyone's right if someone's verbal-reply-re-emphasizing-boundaries-after-their-boundaries-are-crossed. Nevertheless, her <I>having</I> those emotions is not proof, in and of itself, that you acted beyond <I>your</I> rights.)<BR/><BR/>Am I making any sense?<BR/><BR/>*eyeroll*Katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02468513750052527691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-86655712175472162232008-06-04T09:46:00.000-04:002008-06-04T09:46:00.000-04:00Blkseagoat, I don't see what about the way you tal...Blkseagoat, I don't see what about the way you talked to her was harsh. Then again, I haven't heard your tone of voice on podcasts, so...I suppose Naima could imagine something I can't? But just imagining the average voice saying what you said and asking what you asked in the average tone of voice...I see a phrasing that was just right in all ways. I'd really been admiring what you did and how you did it.Katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02468513750052527691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-48751437466703244282008-06-02T11:58:00.000-04:002008-06-02T11:58:00.000-04:00i know that feeling, even in elevators when i taug...i know that feeling, even in elevators when i taught at emory universityAll-Mi-T [Thought Crime] Rawdawgbuffalohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08843040863123899426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-73579071257248193782008-05-30T23:18:00.000-04:002008-05-30T23:18:00.000-04:00Aww, you made the SWF cry. Oh well, I bet she'll ...Aww, you made the SWF cry. Oh well, I bet she'll think twice before she pulls that stunt again.WhozHehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15651969021075559014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-37392964383890293332008-05-30T16:24:00.000-04:002008-05-30T16:24:00.000-04:00oops, I meant "commenting on her unfortunate appea...oops, I meant "commenting on her unfortunate appearance"SheCodeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16781431886213930930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-89649235872095507592008-05-30T16:16:00.000-04:002008-05-30T16:16:00.000-04:00Hmmm. This is a interesting one, because while I ...Hmmm. This is a interesting one, because while I am not particularly concerned about the woman's discomfiture (heck folk make ME uncomfortable all the time and don't seem to care), I would need to know what the goal of confronting her was.<BR/><BR/>Was it to make her feel like a jackass? Mission accomplished. Was it to make her think twice about behaving in ways that might insult black men? Definitely. Was it to make her believe that her 'black men are scary' thinking was wrong? Probably not. Maybe she couldn't learn that lesson anyway, but now we will never know.<BR/><BR/>I HAVE confronted white women about certain behaviors, and come to a better understanding/relationship with them about it.<BR/><BR/>I have ALSO had a few similar episodes similar to blkseagoat's -- I recall a situation when a saleswoman openly trailed me in the department store, obnoxiously ogling me from about 6 feet away at all times. When I opened my purse to get my cellphone out, she almost had conniptions, thinking I was about to slide merchandise into it.<BR/><BR/>I turned around and confronted her and verbally sliced her to pieces and YES, I made her cry. How many black women were subjected to this ill treatment and held their tears back, only to release the floodgates when they got safely to their cars?<BR/><BR/>So the tears don't mean jack to me.<BR/><BR/>However, I didn't bring other 'stuff' into it like her commenting on her unfortunate appearance, flinging expletives etc. Why? because it would dilute my message and give people a false reason to credit her rightness in the situation. People just looove to divide an confrontation down the middle and say that 'you were both wrong'.<BR/><BR/>At no point could she honestly <BR/>claim that I treated her disrespectfully, although she felt the full brunt of my wrath (which I am told is a very scary thing to encounter).<BR/><BR/>I know you well enough to completely believe you when you say that you approached her in a conversational manner.<BR/><BR/>I have no problem with talking to her about her troubling behavior, sans the distracting 'fake bag' commentary.SheCodeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16781431886213930930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-59216944987797393632008-05-30T14:42:00.000-04:002008-05-30T14:42:00.000-04:00Great Post and even greater discussion. This needs...Great Post and even greater discussion. This needs to be brought out into the open and discussed. For the record, I am with my brother blkseagoat in how he confronted that woman. To me she cried simply because he called her out on her racist behavior and she was embarrassed. You did the right thing brother.mrshadow33https://www.blogger.com/profile/15555105052502821408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-70864343801812182542008-05-30T12:40:00.000-04:002008-05-30T12:40:00.000-04:00BlkSeaGoat!Greetings!This type of behavior MUST BE...BlkSeaGoat!<BR/><BR/>Greetings!<BR/><BR/>This type of behavior MUST BE confronted! She will think long and hard the next time! <BR/><BR/>I am glad that you didn't ignore her foolishness and that you approached her. We MUST call people out on their bigotry and prejudice - white or black!<BR/><BR/>Once, I was on a very-very crowded train and a man told me that I had touched his butt! I lookd at him and said, "Dream on, dreamboat!" and kept it moving. The fact that this woman CRIED indicates that she was completely undone when told about her bigotry.<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!<BR/>LisaLISA VAZQUEZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13583559303233985031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-82325292488828356712008-05-30T11:58:00.000-04:002008-05-30T11:58:00.000-04:00I love it. I'd pay to see that. And I commend yo...I love it. I'd pay to see that. And I commend you for addressing her cuz I'm sure you taught her something.<BR/><BR/>If that were me, I'd have waited for her to look my way again, mouth an insult, and roll my eyes.Anonymisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13030472200941563001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-18757337236595971712008-05-30T09:57:00.000-04:002008-05-30T09:57:00.000-04:00They ARE hot shoes. :) Black leather Cole Haan str...They ARE hot shoes. :) Black leather Cole Haan strappy sandals. <BR/><BR/>Like you, I am perhaps hypersensitive to race issues because of my personal experiences, but in a different way. I went to a mostly white grade school, and then I went to an urban high school with no racial majority. All the Rodney King stuff happened during my time there and it was a very racially charged environment at times. It was a seriously eye-opening experience during a formative time of my life. Now, I actually notice when I walk into a lily-white environment, and am somewhat uncomfortable about it, even though I don't stand out personally. If my husband and I have kids, it's important to me that they have an upbringing that exposes them to various cultures/races and socioeconomic backgrounds on a daily basis. I don't think it's realistically possible for my generation to be raceblind, but it would be cool if we drifted toward that in future generations. Call me Pollyanna.<BR/><BR/>A lot of people are really uncomfortable talking about this stuff -- good discussion you have going here.Two Shorten the Roadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03552869938010784108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-25345839987078735122008-05-29T22:37:00.000-04:002008-05-29T22:37:00.000-04:00Shannon said:"Well, focusedpurpose really doesn't ...Shannon said:<BR/><BR/>"Well, focusedpurpose really doesn't like white women."<BR/><BR/>Shannon, i understand that you do not know me. allow me to clarify. i do not like white supremacy; in fact i hate it. i am not sorry. white women are literally the mothers of white supremacy and benefit, still today, the most from it; while some cry and deny it every step of the way. <BR/><BR/>those white women that are striving to be like white men insist on perpetuating white supremacy. "feminism" as we know it is rife with white supremacy; if you trained yourself to listen to those that differ from you, you would find i am not the only one to point this out. as i said, hrclinton is the poster child for the type of white woman i am talking about. she has a great deal of company, too, some are even married to non white men---go figure that one out. <BR/><BR/>there are some white women, and black, asian, hispanic for that matter that i don't particularly like, yes; to say i just don't like white women in general is silly. <BR/><BR/>i reserve the right to tell the truth as i see it. had this woman had the courage to tell the truth, i am sure this post would be entirely different. i would have had a lot more respect for her had she said, "hey dude, i watch a lot of t.v.", anything other than a denial; especially, since white men will eat you, make a dress out of you, etc. as supported by many years of serial killing of white women by white men.<BR/><BR/>btw, i have met white women that are grounded enough in their humanity to tell the truth. the lying, crying ones lack this and i don't feel compelled to nurture them through their bs as i am not their Nanna, aunt Bessie, or whatever the black woman's name would be that was "like a mother" to them. again, i am not speaking of all white women, nor am i sorry for my position. <BR/><BR/>i hope that helps you to stand in the light of understanding. as long as white folks reserve the right to be clueless and say "we didn't start the fire" ala billy joel, this mess will never get any better. btw, white supremacy is just as detrimental to white folks as it is to those that are on the receiving end of it; just in case you are interested in what's in it for you to get a clue:-)<BR/><BR/>BlkSeagoat, provocative post! keep up the good work. dialogue is the beginning...<BR/><BR/>blessings all,<BR/>focusedpurposefocusedpurposehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15537118983874391619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-26111721836426647852008-05-29T20:01:00.000-04:002008-05-29T20:01:00.000-04:00nutmeg,You present and excellent perspective that ...nutmeg,<BR/><BR/>You present and excellent perspective that we can continue if you'd like.<BR/><BR/>Why did you feel guilty about wobbling and what triggered you to superimpose your feelings of guilt on to the black man who simply smiled and said hello?<BR/><BR/>You're right about me genralizing about white people. My experiences may be my experiences, but they've been frequent enough to justify my statement.<BR/><BR/>Now had you wobbled in front of me, I would have commented on how nice your stilletos were then asked if you were okay. After that, I'd probably tell you to OWN YOUR WALK so that the wobbling didn't happen again. *LOL*BLKSeaGoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273396811423958316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-48448596587443700232008-05-29T19:11:00.000-04:002008-05-29T19:11:00.000-04:00Wow, I am rather surprised at the heat Blkseagoat ...Wow, I am rather surprised at the heat Blkseagoat is taking for standing up for himself. Why are all of you so preoccupied for this woman's feelings? I truly don't get it. <BR/><BR/>Blkseagoat, you did something that I suspect many black people have been wanting to do whites when they get unfairly "tagged" as the criminal beast. Instead, we bury it wanting to come across as "fair" and "rational"-don't want to rock the boat and make them think any less of us than they already do. <BR/><BR/>A couple of years ago I was with my brother-in-law on the Upper East Side of Manhattan in NYC. My sister just gave birth to their daughter at Mt. Sinai. We went to get her a burger because she hated the hospital food. As walked into the diner, a white guy bumped into my 6'3 brother-in-law and he automatically checked his wallet in his back pocket to makes sure it was still there. I also noticed my brother-in-law had his hands up while he walked past the guy as if to show him he didn't take anything. I was shocked, but my brother-in-law didn't want to discuss it. He acted like nothing happened.Jazinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10660661539538870161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-33547321602056977372008-05-29T18:59:00.000-04:002008-05-29T18:59:00.000-04:00I'm sorry that happened to you. I think people are...I'm sorry that happened to you. I think people aren't really understanding how it all went down -- only those who were there can really judge. <BR/><BR/>It is true though that things are not always what they seem. Your post hit home with me because yesterday I was walking toward the garage at work, and I was wearing heels that were near stillettos, walking on cobblestone. At one point my foot wobbled and I kind of swerved to the left as a result (trying not to actually fall), and then this black guy walking toward me made a point to smile and say Hi. I smiled and said Hi back, and then a moment later I got all paranoid that he thought I was swerving left to avoid him. I had angst about this for a while afterwards. Maybe he was just being friendly -- but if he was trying to make a point, his way of dealing with what he may have seen as a slight was really tactful. And it definitely made the point as well as or better than if he'd have lectured me. OTOH, then I could have shown him my heels and explained my swerve. ;) <BR/><BR/>But I feel like you might think I'm just rationalizing my obvious deep-down racism with this post, because of your comment about "white people absolving themselves from their own character flaws." Like all white people are the same. What's *that* all about? You know that's not a rational statement, just like it's not rational for a chick to clutch her bag suddenly when a group of black guys comes in. <BR/><BR/>You know, she was clearly stupid anyway, because she should never have left her bag out in the open in the first place. Those are the people who get their crap stolen (by thieves of any color).Two Shorten the Roadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03552869938010784108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-91548913182044475642008-05-29T17:18:00.000-04:002008-05-29T17:18:00.000-04:00Devil's Advocate,I've seen bloggers that write abo...Devil's Advocate,<BR/><BR/>I've seen bloggers that write about their pride in being white and they blame black people for all of the social ills in society. They typically call themselves Republicans or Conservatives. <BR/><BR/>Feel free to do what you want on your blog. I'm not going to respond to anything other than your experience walking through DuPont, as it relates to his post.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the guy did overreact toward's you. I wouldn't have yelled... I don't need to. However, I will ask this:<BR/><BR/>How many times have been on an elevator or a train and sat next to a black woman and they started clutching their bags as if they were afraid of you? <BR/><BR/>You claim that minorities are separatists; you neglect to include that 450 years of LEGALIZED separation rendered most blacks this way. In addition to several years of sophisticated separation, that while unethical and immoral, was never prevented by the legal system. <BR/><BR/>In your case however, being cold is just being cold. I'd have thought nothing of it because like you, I would have probably worn something inappropriate for DC weather. This was not the case in the restaurant that Sunday night.<BR/><BR/>There was a clear, deliberate, and irrational reaction on this young woman's part, that while it may not sully my interactions with all white women, it will certainly make me a little more observant of how they behave.BLKSeaGoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273396811423958316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-43266630959051096232008-05-29T14:57:00.000-04:002008-05-29T14:57:00.000-04:00I don't see a problem with confronting this woman ...I don't see a problem with confronting this woman on her behavior. How else will the issue of racism in this country (or any societal issue for that matter) get resolved if it is not confronted? <BR/><BR/>I can't see any other reason but race for the woman abruptly grabbing her purse. I understand nowadays with the way crime is today, but crime is caused by people of ALL RACES (and genders, too).Allison Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058178511898387086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-82477062152830559242008-05-29T13:03:00.000-04:002008-05-29T13:03:00.000-04:00Foil,I didn't feel attacked. I was actaully more b...Foil,<BR/><BR/>I didn't feel attacked. I was actaully more bewildered than anything else. <BR/><BR/>White women don't typically react that way in DuPont Circle, especcially not around a group such as the one I was a part of. What could be so threatening about a group of men fashionably dressed with arched eyebrows, manicure nails, and donning lipgloss? <BR/><BR/>If we ever cross paths again she can feel free to cross the street. It will only confirm what I've written in this post. She was suffering from something way before she encountered me. I simply called her out on it.BLKSeaGoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273396811423958316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-60027520423745791202008-05-29T12:59:00.000-04:002008-05-29T12:59:00.000-04:00Shannon,You, like, so many others who have read th...Shannon,<BR/><BR/>You, like, so many others who have read this post still refuse to acknowledge the woman's irrational behavior and it's cool... I'm used to white people absolving themselves from their own character flaws.<BR/><BR/>I was calm when I approached her and what I wrote in this post was verbatim. I didn't yell at her and I sure didn't approach her being "Angry Black Man". Callin her purse fake was a true statement, but you're right... I didn't have to call her out about having one. <BR/><BR/>Hmmm... Maybe that's the reason she started crying (Although I don't go through life making people cry)! Maybe she was more embarrassed by the fact that I called her out for having a penchant for purchasing fake luxury goods from purveyors of trademark infringement. <BR/><BR/>It's all so clear to me now... The woman wasn't racist (and in this post I never stated she was or that all white women were); she was simply embarrassed because everyone now knows that her purse isn't real and she's been posing all these years.<BR/><BR/>Awwww (sad face)BLKSeaGoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273396811423958316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-9804354264865837132008-05-29T10:37:00.000-04:002008-05-29T10:37:00.000-04:00I'm not sure if you were right or wrong for confro...I'm not sure if you were right or wrong for confronting her. If she offended you and it was going to bother you to leave something unsaid, then screw it. Say something to her. She might think twice about leaving her purse on another table again, so that she doesn't HAVE to put herself in an uncomfortable situation of strategizing exactly when she should take it into her possession. <BR/><BR/>Walking through Dupont two years ago, I had a clutch purse. Clutch as in, no strap. So it was under my arm. Along comes a cold breeze and I tighten my arms to me. And then there's a black man screaming about how he's not going to steal my purse.<BR/><BR/>Forgive me, but I left the house not realizing how cold I might become later and this world is not all about you buddy. He wouldn't ever see it that way though. He'll go through life adding that to his list of people who have been afraid of him. Narcissism for sure.<BR/><BR/>An interesting side note that these posts bring to my mind is this: For years we've known racism to exist and there seems to be a very strong change in the tides in the last few decades, in that, there are no more minorities. <BR/><BR/>But it's still okay to single yourself out for being black. Take your advertisement in the sidebar: Proud Black Voter.<BR/><BR/>What if I put a "Proud White Voter" ad on my blog? Why is there a difference? Why do all minorities demand they want to be treated equal then go and single themselves out? It's something that has always bothered me.Devil's Advocatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682819177808501549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904591918172086294.post-51031952687167030592008-05-29T09:36:00.000-04:002008-05-29T09:36:00.000-04:00Well, focusedpurpose really doesn't like white wom...Well, focusedpurpose really doesn't like white women. How constructive. I'll be sure to sob manipulatively as I post this comment.<BR/><BR/>Going back to the original confrontation...I have a rule in life, "Once you've made your point, stop talking." Calling the women out on the purse-grabbing, calmly and politely, might have made her see things in a new light. "Ma'am, why'd you grab your purse like that?"<BR/><BR/>However, continuing to berate her ("fake purse" and onwards) undercuts your aims because she probably just thought to herself, "Wow, what a psycho." In the end you only made the situation worse.<BR/><BR/>Also, I just don't think it's appropriate to go through life making people cry. Call me a prissy white girl, but that just isn't cool.Shannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16089796721473561446noreply@blogger.com